Curse

Alexandra-Sweet · May 07, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

People keep telling me I should bring Dwayna's Kiss instead of Orison when being HB in an Ursan group (Norn farming, Slavers' Exile).

Now how does an Ursan benefit from Dwayna's Kiss?
The only enchantment a HB build has that targets an ally is Seed of Life and/Or Healing Seed, and in both cases Dwayna's Kiss would only be an overheal if those enchantments are activated.

As for hexes it might be superior but hexes can also be unpredictable (some end on a certant action) and the only type of hex during Norn farming is a snare (there's always Scourge Healing but a hex removal would be superior over both Orison and Dwayna's Kiss)

And Dwayna's Kiss can't be targeted on the caster, so if the Monk is attacked it only has Ethereal Light which isn't exactly 100% flawless even with HB. A Monk that heals a little less is better then a dead Monk!

So my question is, why use Dwayna's Kiss over Orison when healing a bunch of Ursans?

zling · May 07, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

first of all Orison of Healing is just a bad skill. whenever people see other Monks use it it's usually FAIL Monk!
Dwayna's Kiss is just superior as it can grow very strong, and even if it doesn't it's still on par with Orison.
as for HB Monk in Ursan build, if you're taking damage than your team is doing something wrong... all your enemies are supposed to be on their asses most of the time...

Tyla · May 07, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

If it's a hex heavy area, it's understandable.
If not, it's best going for something such as Patient Spirit or Words of Comfort.

Orison + HB = Glimmer of Light clone.

ShadowsRequiem · May 07, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Yah dwaynas is a much much much better skill than orison. I've only done slavers a few times but isnt there lots of hexes in some of the places? This makes dwaynas that much better

snaek · May 07, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

patient spirit ftw
(especially now that they fixed it, and now works properly wit hb)

Alexandra-Sweet · May 07, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

as for HB Monk in Ursan build, if you're taking damage than your team is doing something wrong... all your enemies are supposed to be on their asses most of the time...

Trust me, I sometimes take more damage then an Ursan when farming Norn points in Varajar Falls, Ursans have way more health and armor then a Monk so keeping aggro isn't that easy I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

patient spirit ftw
(especially now that they fixed it, and now works properly wit hb)

Patient Spirit isn't really a direct heal, and an Ursan can die pretty fast because an average Ursan PuG rushes ahead of the Monk with Ursan Force and when the Monks arrive they are pretty much at 5%, I even have to take Jamei's Gaze to keep those little red bars above 60% (not to mention an Ursan running around in AoE, it's impossible to heal all 6 even with Heal Party x2!)

MisterT69 · May 07, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

If you go to DoA or places like that w/heavy hexes, you can easily heal 500+ health with dwayna's kiss, making it more than powerful enough.

snaek · May 07, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet

Trust me, I sometimes take more damage then an Ursan when farming Norn points in Varajar Falls, Ursans have way more health and armor then a Monk so keeping aggro isn't that easy I guess.

try waiting jus a bit longer before u heal
(kiting may also help)

nuthin really gets spiked too hard during the varajar falls run

i.e. if u get in range to heal the ursan 600/700hp back up to 700/700hp
ur more likely to break the aggro onto u

rather if u wait for 400/700hp and heal to 600/700hp
u'll less likely to break the aggro

aggro bases it on current health, not max health
so if they do a health check and see target 1 at 400/700hp
and target 2 at 500/500hp
they'll attack target 1

miskav · May 07, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Hex + Your own enchants = Dwayna's autopwns's Orison.

Alex the Great · May 07, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

lol, have you ever monked in the underworld? you commonly heal for over 300 with dywana's

Alexandra-Sweet · May 07, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

try waiting jus a bit longer before u heal
(kiting may also help)

i.e. if u get in range to heal the ursan 600/700hp back up to 700/700hp
ur more likely to break the aggro onto u

rather if u wait for 400/700hp and heal to 600/700hp
u'll less likely to break the aggro

aggro bases it on current health, not max health
so if they do a health check and see target 1 at 400/700hp
and target 2 at 500/500hp
they'll attack target 1

Thats actually helpful information, so keeping red bars up isn't that good afterall. Thanks but I do have to prove you wrong of something though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

nuthin really gets spiked too hard during the varajar falls run

Overaggro, all enemy on 1 Ursan.
Dazehl Brainfreezer: An Ele boss specialized in Water Magic.
He can do 200dmg to 60AL with just [skill]Ice Spear[/skill] (+50% dmg because he's a boss and Hard Mode adds another 25% dmg and he has something like 20 Water Magic)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

lol, have you ever monked in the underworld? you commonly heal for over 300 with dywana's

I've never done UW with an Ursan Group before, but I do know that Dwayna's Kiss can heal a OB Tank for 600~
And as I said in my first post I'm only Monking in Varajar Fells and I've only been able to do Thomm, Selve And Rand in Slavers' Exile with an Ursan group so far.

legacyofkain85 · May 07, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

i use patient folowed with dwayna´s for a nice chunk of heal ,i dont care about overhealling in pve i like it ,ofc no point in healling for such big chunk of hp when the target is taking little dmg

ivan.alicard · May 07, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

answer: at verajar falls usually don't need dwaynas kiss i would just bring ps as a pre prot for the healing lines. that and healing the ursan isn't that hard just need to find the one taking the most damage through in seed of life, couple heal here and there and your done. it shouldn't be that hard considering you have a second monk too to help out.

ps: ursan at varajar are slow noobs they won't agro fast enough, much easier if you have a leading ursan that runs a bit ahead of time. benefits is he gathers the aggro rather then having a few here and there fighting in 2-3 groups, second is its easier on the monk knowing who will take more damage and who to put seeds on.

legacyofkain85 · May 07, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet

Overaggro, all enemy on 1 Ursan.
Dazehl Brainfreezer: An Ele boss specialized in Water Magic.
He can do 200dmg to 60AL with just [skill]Ice Spear[/skill] (+50% dmg because he's a boss and Hard Mode adds another 25% dmg and he has something like 20 Water Magic)

That is why pre prot is great.I belive he does more than 200 dmg tho to a 60 Al
good thing he doesnt have shatterstone insted of mind freeze ,or vapor blade

mistokibbles · May 08, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

first of all Orison of Healing is just a bad skill. whenever people see other Monks use it it's usually FAIL Monk...
...if you're taking damage than your team is doing something wrong... all your enemies are supposed to be on their asses most of the time...

Alexandra said why she would bring Orison over Kiss. You still have to be within range to cast spells on your ursans so anything could break aggro and go after you. Since she was norn point farming, there aren't many hexes if I remember correctly. The only ones in that area are from the ice imps right?

Winterclaw · May 08, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet

Patient Spirit isn't really a direct heal, and an Ursan can die pretty fast because an average Ursan PuG rushes ahead of the Monk with Ursan Force and when the Monks arrive they are pretty much at 5%, I even have to take Jamei's Gaze to keep those little red bars above 60% (not to mention an Ursan running around in AoE, it's impossible to heal all 6 even with Heal Party x2!)

There's your problem. When they rush, I say let them die and when they do tell them "Here's your sign".

Div · May 08, 2008, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

There's your problem. When they rush, I say let them die and when they do tell them "Here's your sign".

I remember I used to do that in PUGs. Now I do it in GvGs instead. lol

Age · May 08, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I will use DKiss if Reversal of Fortune is on my bar but if not I use Oisons as I have habbit of self tageting myself with it.Pugs want to run a head with Ursans is why I will take res.

MasterSasori · May 08, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

There's your problem. When they rush, I say let them die and when they do tell them "Here's your sign".

WFT

12 miserable char.

Cartoonhero · May 09, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

dwaynas is a good skill in hex heavy areas i like it in fow and uw and such.

i do understand what you're saying about etheral being a little sketchy even with hb, i've had stray hits land only to get inturrupted even after kiting away when i try to heal myself.

taking dwaynas over orison just puts more faith in the other monk, if i know the other monk im coming with i generally take dwaynas, if its some random puggie i take orison in case they're not exactly awesome, so i dont drop dead when i have a stray mob come at me.

patient spirit is a good skill if you use it correctly, 2 seconds isnt that long to wait for a huge heal, you just have to be proactive with it and use it before they're at 1/4 life.

as for orison being a 'horrible skill', its not, especially on an HB bar.